November 28, 2007 - 12:50pm
Good post
Hey Rick...
I think your bring up some really valid points here. As you mentioned, we're Mac/Drupal guys...so that's why this gets lost on the podcast.
We just found out recently that this podcast is listed in the zune marketplace (I didn't even know one existed!)...so we should definately mention that.
However, as far as covering more zune or mssql (and other CMS stuff), the fact is, we just don't know a ton about them because we don't use them. The stuff we talk about on the 'cast is stuff that we have daily interaction with and feel qualified to talk about.
But, I think it's a great point to bring up, that this stuff could be covered more...so I think MF and I will add this to our radar and try and learn a bit more about it...and maybe keep an eye open for bringing a guest on the show that could add some perspective.
Good stuff here....thanks for speaking up!
-Rob Feature
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.mustardseedmedia.com
November 28, 2007 - 3:18pm
Good Ideas
Rick,
Good post. I'm not as much of a apple/ipod fan as Bob. I have an old ipod from back when it was hands down the best option. I have computers at home funning Windows, OS X, Linux, and FreeBSD. I've used other databasing systems including more obscure ones like ingres. I am not opposed to other systems.
The Zune marketplace just launched, not to long ago, and we had an explosion of Zune users. It was pleasantly surprising. I've read and herd rave reviews about the new Zune software. The update was really good. Plus, this is the first time Microsoft has supported podcasts. This is all around a good thing. We will definitely point out the Zune marketplace.
I'm all for Zune users and our Zune listeners.
As for ASP and MSSQL. There are 3 reasons I don't talk about them much. First, I don't use them. When I develop for churches and ministries it's usually on less expensive web hosting. When I do corporate it's (surprisingly) not Microsoft products either. It is usually a LAMP stack which means PHP is available, maybe ASP, and maybe Python. To be everywhere I tend to go with PHP. MSSQL is a different story. It is a good database, don't get me wrong, but it costs and is not available on a lot of hosting platforms.
Second, most of the listeners we are trying to get to aren't savvy developers. If they were they wouldn't need to learn the technical end from us. Most of the people who listen are volunteers who are trying to help their church part time. So, I try to talk about systems that are easy, powerful, and wide spread. PHP/MySQL is the most common and wide spread situation. So, I tend to stay with these rather than branching out into ASP/MSSQL.
Third, I tend to go with the free side of things. That means MySQL and PostgreSQL for databasing. That means LAMP stacks over Microsoft servers (which do completely rock these days). With both churches and myself it's usually a cost issue. Save money to spend on other things.
Why drupal? Besides the fact that I think it's the best content management platform at the moment, I only plan on mastering one system. I'm fine with users of other systems. I'd love to interview people who work on, work with, and are ninjas of other platforms. But, unless someone pays me :) to learn a different platform I'm going to stick with one. I don't want to spread to thin.
These days I'm, also, a Joomla fan. Their rewrite of their codebase has made developing for Joomla much more elegant and less hackish.
Not really knowing DotNetNuke I have to say there is one thing I really like about them. They use a BSD style license. Those are the most open of all licenses available on the Internet. Much more open than the GPL.
Now, over on my blog (which will get a slight upgrade and regular blogging on it starting next week) I will branch out into some different areas. I'd expect it to be PostgreSQL and Python first. Those are two of the other toys I'm learning to love.
OK, enough rambling on.....
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
November 28, 2007 - 7:02pm
One note on cost
I knew that cost would become a point of argument and I would just like to say two things on that.
1) My mssql webhost cost the exact same as my mySQL host for the same functions.
2) There is a free version of MSSQL for the desktop, see it at http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/Aa336346.aspx.
If I had to pay additional, truthfully I would not have gone the route of the microsoft. I think that MS has seen the value of having free options available after seeing what mySQL has done in the past few years. Even if they are limited in options.
Great replies though. Keeps us all looking at alternatives. Thanks.
November 29, 2007 - 9:20am
Interesting
I just did some searching for MSSQL low cost plans. There were a number out there. Though, what I saw was not nearly as wide spread as MySQL or even PostgreSQL. Yet, there were still many more than last time I looked.
The free version of MSSQL is neutered. It was technically structured so you could use if for personal use, on the desktop, or in a situation with just a few number of users. Microsoft says it's a simple upgrade to their costly version. If you are going to build a useful database app/website why build it so that it can handle just a few users at best. If you want to continue down your development path and have any amount of users you would have to pay out almost $6,000 for the standard edition of MSSQL.
I'm not against MSSQL. I'm not even for any particular programming language or even architecture style. Sure, I have my preferences; but, I don't think any one way is THE way to go.
What I am for with churches and ministries is cost effectiveness, form, security, and features. If you can accomplish these with MSSQL than go for it.
Usually it's the cost effectiveness that gets in the way for me. I am all for paying for a good product if it's worth it. But, why pay for MSSQL when PostgreSQL is a free yet has all the features needed for enterprise level databasing?
Good thoughts. Please, keep them coming.
Matt Farina
Geeks and God Co-Host
www.innovatingtomorrow.net
www.mattfarina.com
I put this into general, but it can also be pushed into other categories so I will leave it up to admine to push where best suited.
Let me qualify that I am not a MS fanboy. Just use what works best for me atm. Have owned and use all MS OS's, work network is Mac and MS, own and use MS, OSX, and linux at home, and have Ipod, zune, and other mp3 players.
Down to business...I have not seen much on the site for Zune users. I also know of the G&G adversion to using search in listening to some of your podcasts, so I did not search for zune either. But I think it important to note that podcast has now become synonymous with just audio in general and not just Mac/Ipod. I have my 30GB Zune that uses the podcast address. So maybe on the shows, mention that ipod OR zune users can get the podcast very easily by searching the Itunes or zune marketplace for Geeks and God.
Next, MSSQL. I know that both of you are big on the drupal system. Great system. I have played with it a bit and cannot find any major faults, but thought that I would mention that in your CMS podcasts, I did not hear much about MSSQL options. Personally, I use DotNetNuke on a couples sites and have found it very inviting. I also use Joomla on a couple others and, honestly, am much more a PHP/mySQL person than an ASP/msSQL person. But wanted to mention this to all of the vistors.
Now before anyone gets going on why to use this over that. Cost versus ease of use. Open source and closed source. I just want to make sure you understand that I simply want to show options.
AND, just incase, I DID miss your mentions of Zune or DotNetNuke(or other MS CMS) in a podcast that I have not listened to, or post that I cannot find, chalk it up to me being a relatively new forum member who wants to make difference :)
Rick
ZicherD
Linux 25%/Windows 50%/Mac 25%
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